Social Sanity Book Club Chapter 4: Choosing the Better Portion

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Sarah Zylstra
Welcome back to our book discussion on social sanity and an Insu world. I am Sarah zostera. And I am here with Melissa Krueger, who wrote chapter four, which is our chapter on discernment. Melissa, thank you so much for joining me.

Melissa Kruger
Thanks for having me, Sarah. It’s fun to be here.

Sarah Zylstra
I would love it. If you could just first start out by telling us, when did you first get your first social media account?

Melissa Kruger
I think it was Facebook. I’m pretty sure I remembered hearing about it at some point. And thinking, Oh, that’d be so nice to connect with people. But I’m pretty sure it was Facebook was the very first social media I had. And I really just joined it to connect with friends and see people from college who I hadn’t seen in years because we had moved overseas. And so I got disconnected with my college friends pretty quickly. Just because when you’re living overseas in a pre social media age you I really knew nothing about anyone’s lives. And so for me, it was a great way to reconnect with people I hadn’t seen in a long time.

Sarah Zylstra
That is awesome. How was that your favorite thing about it when you first got on?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I loved you know, because a lot of people in the ensuing years had gotten married, had kids. And so you’re getting to see oh, that’s, that’s a little baby. That’s their puppy. That’s, you know, their vacation they took and I loved it. For that reason, I thought, because it really cared about a lot of these friends. And so I thought, hey, this is great to get to see them and see what their lives have become and see what they’re doing and what they’re up to. So I thought it was kind of good fun to just see catch up with people, so to speak. I think we

Sarah Zylstra
all felt like that. At first, like, this is a lot of fun. This is a good time. When did you? Was there a point when you started to feel weird about it? Or when did you start to feel like that maybe this isn’t all just good

Melissa Kruger
fun? Yeah, you know, having kids and seeing other people’s experience on social media and what they were doing. I remember, I started in it as a little bit. Because every fall all these families were going apple picking. I’ll be honest, I had never thought about apple picking as a family before. I had never done it as a family and my family that I grew up with. But all of a sudden, I was like, We are not picking apples as a family, what is wrong with us? So I started to realize, wow, this really influences what I think is normal. But what I was seeing other people doing and I had to really check myself and say, you know, it really doesn’t matter if you never pick apples as a family. It’s totally okay. But it just started, it really clued me into this is really powerful. And no one no one who was sharing their pictures was trying to get me to buy anything, so to speak, but it was really powerful and how it made me feel Are we a good enough family? And, and that was kind of surprising to me.

Sarah Zylstra
I’m impressed that you even picked up on that because I who also did not grow up in an apple picking family definitely started picking apples. You know, like that’s what you do with your toddler so you can get all the cute pictures and the pumpkins and the doughnuts and all the stuff but and it never dawned on me at that point like, Oh, why are you doing that? Is this like your favorite fun thing in the fall. And now that I’m even think about there’s a apple picking place by us that is just overrun. Like it is just more than you would think would be for an apple picking place.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, are all these people really making apple pies and apple butter and all these things, which I did, I actually made some great apple butter from my apple picking. And I really enjoyed it. But it just tuned me in. And I think a lot of it. To be honest, in my mind came because I had done I had written a book on envy. And so that book, heightened my awareness of looking over the fence into someone else’s life is always dangerous. And here’s what by studying that concept, I realized I only see what I want to see in someone else’s garden. And so I’m seeing the the pretty picture that they took maybe after 20 attempts and there were tantrums in the middle. And that’s not all photographed. But we’re just seeing the end result of maybe one moment that was happy and there could have been 30 that weren’t happy. And so my work in that area really had opened my eyes to just some of my tendencies and some of our tendencies just as people that we just see what is better in someone else’s garden without really knowing the whole story.

Sarah Zylstra
And isn’t it interesting that you don’t even have to go in their house like the fences between us are so much shorter, they’re taking you in there with them, right or just they’re showing you what like you should this is a great part of my life. So how much easier to envy? They’re curating it for you.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. And we used to have 1234 fences. Now we have 2000. If you have 2000 friends, I mean, do you. So now our ability to see into someone’s garden is not limited to the four people who live next to us or to backyard neighbors, or whatever its limit is now. Unlimited. Because now I can even see into the garden of that famous movie star, and their beautiful vacation to wherever they’ve never heard of before. But now I really wish I could be in Greece, at that little location that they’re in. I mean, just the things that exposes us to that we never had eyes to see, there’s a great, a great verse, it says, Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things and give me life in your name. And that stuck with me a lot like, what my I see really matter. And it can make me value what might be worthless thing because, yeah, I want a happy family moment. But what I really want is a happy family. And so seeking out the moment might make us all miserable, rather than actually what builds a happy family and really thinking about

Sarah Zylstra
that. Yeah, yeah, I think that’s really good. I think one, you know, of course, the main question here is, how do you do that in real life? Like boots on the ground? How do you get there. And one thing that we’ve talked about before is knowing yourself. So you and I approach social media differently. I am an Enneagram. One. And my tendency is definitely toward perfectionism and production. And so when I go on social media, when I look at somebody else’s Perfect Living room, I’m comparing myself to that and like, Oh, I’m not, I’m not measuring up to that, or oh, I’m envying somebody else’s perfect, whatever it is, they have that looks perfect. That to me is like, Oh, I can’t measure up to that. That’s like my own, you know, soft spot. But that’s not the same soft spot for everybody.

Melissa Kruger
That’s right. That’s right. I would say it’s good to look at two things about yourself, what is your personality type? And what are your idols your protect, because we all struggle with different things with that when it comes to idolatry. So I would say, for instance, my personality type is to Enneagram to use of the helper so I get online and I’m attracted to all the the stories of people’s lives falling apart, actually, I read them, and I’m like, oh, I should do something. And I feel so I can leave social media with this huge weight of, oh, the world is falling apart. And this person has cancer. And this person, it looks like they’re probably getting divorced, because she hasn’t mentioned her husband in six months. And yeah, like this, this thing’s going on here. And I can leave so weighted down with what should I do to care for this person? Yeah, we should. That’s just a check on my personality type. I’m not God, I’m not all knowing. And I’m not all seen. And I’m not all powerful. And I’m not all on the present. So I can’t be in all those places. And so it social media can kind of make you feel like you’re God, you know, everything that’s going on, and all this stuff. And so I have to remember my limitations and who has the Lord called me to be involved in their lives in certain ways. And then the second thing is knowing, knowing our idols, so the things that would attract me are the vacations and the comfort. If that, yeah, I’ll be like, Oh, that looks amazing. And I’m like, work. Yeah, like, I need a vacation like that. If I had a vacation like that I could work on that work project so much better. You know, I mean, I start, that will be the temptation for me where someone else might see someone else published another book, and that does nothing to me, um, I want good for her appraisal order got written and I didn’t have to do it.

Sarah Zylstra
Show me the accomplishments, right?

Melissa Kruger
Not mine. And so I look at that I’m a comfort person. So I’m looking at the vacation or, you know, somebody says, somebody brought them a meal. And I’m like, Oh, that’s so nice. I wish I have friends who brought me a meal, you know, or whatever. Whereas I’m not attracted to some of the success stories. Like there’s just don’t, they just roll off my back. I’m like, oh, good for that. And I really can mean it from my heart. And so I think it’s knowing our own proclivities where we struggle, and maybe even where our personality type struggles. Yes, yeah,

Sarah Zylstra
I think that totally makes sense. And I can see how a person maybe an Enneagram seven would be attracted to people gathering, or people looking like they’re having a great time.

Melissa Kruger
party without me and I’m like, praise the Lord. They had a party without me. I got to read my book.

Sarah Zylstra
Right, right. Yep, I can totally see that. Or I can even see how a peacemaker or a challenger would come on also with like, sort of those more fighting instincts or the distress over the fighting. I can see that makes sense. Yes. Um, it you write in your chapter that like your daughter learning to drive doing social media, well takes practice. So how do you know if you’re using social media? If you are driving off the road? And how do you know if you’re still on the path? Like, how, what’s the warning sign there?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, that’s, that’s a good question. I like to look at certain things as what I call roadblocks just in life. So if I see what I call the anti fruit of the Spirit, like, if I’m not loving, if I’m not peaceful, if I’m not patient, if I’m not joyful, if I’m not self control, you know, that whole list, the anti of all of those, so like, if I’m constantly scrolling, that’s a lack of self control. If I’m anxious, constantly, maybe I need to think about what’s my social media? Yeah, I’ve been lucky. Like, if I’m not loving, maybe because I saw something happening on social media, or they posted this and now am I on like that person anymore. You know, if it’s affecting the fruit that I’m supposed to be bearing, to me, those are road road signs, saying maybe you just need to be off for a little while, maybe just take a break, walk away. Just stop looking at it. Because if it’s affecting how I view fellow image bearers, in really negative ways, I think we have to be cautious about that. And so those are some of the signs I look for in my own heart about. Because if it’s Spirit lead, it’s going to be fruit bearing. So I really believe I’m a big believer, and I can go online and try to share gospel centered resources, I can go on there and really try to be a person who’s encouraging other people, it matters when somebody says, Oh, that’s such a great picture of your family. Oh, I love that you got to take that vacation. Yeah, that we’re cheering each other on and can really be a place where connection can happen. So I don’t think the solution is just to let it go altogether, because I really think encouragement and connection can happen. I know I have made good friends through social media are coworker I was talking to Megan today, that’s how we met was we were in a little private Facebook group about writing. And she’s a dear real life friend of mine now. And I would have missed that without a private Facebook group. And so there are good places to be. But I do think when we start to see it negatively affecting how we’re reacting in our life, to circumstances, I think that’s a good time to say maybe I need a break from you. So

Sarah Zylstra
maybe then how you know you’re using it correctly, as you do see some of the fruits of the spirit of you know, encouragement or joy, feeling joy with other people.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, yeah, I think that’s a really, it could be a really good thing. Yeah, that we can, I noticed that you still let me at church connect with people a little bit better? Yeah. Hey, I saw this, so that so and so learn how to walk or got body train this week. And that’s so great. You know, whatever it if it’s allowing us to do that, I think that’s a really good good use, and is fruit bearing and connects us to people in our life, rather than disconnects us because we’re jealous or envious or angry. When you see those things. It’s probably time any and you might step back from a certain type of social media. So for instance, you have to know what affects you more, like when I get on Twitter, which isn’t very often these days, I’m just discouraged. There’s not much there, that makes me feel encouraged. So I just have walked away pretty much from it. I’ll share every now and again. But I just don’t even like watching how Christians interact there. And it’s the Christians to be quiet or disturbing me. And so don’t like how they’re interacting. So I’ve chosen not to be on it because it can color how I think about some people there.

Sarah Zylstra
I wonder if you can extend that and also think about being discerning over like who you follow, or Yeah, you don’t want to like unfriend, I don’t know what you know, like you want to be open to everyone right? But are there people that you need to unfriend and simple way from?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I think there can be I mean, let me say this, I think they are Yeah, if I’m following Taylor Swift she’s ever gonna notice if I unfollow her. And she said I a particular area of temptation for me. I would just Yeah, I don’t follow her. But I don’t think it would be a problem if I did. But so. So if there’s someone though, that is a friend, I do have a harder time with it because I don’t want them to think I’m saying, I’m not your friend if I knew them, actually, personally, that would be much harder for me because some ways it feels like this passive aggressive way of saying, I don’t like you. So I would just you It just for me, I haven’t unfollowed many people or blocked people, that’s just not been a part of it for me, but I understand why some people have to. I have not had the people who continually hail and be like, some people have had, you know, have experienced and I get why you gotta block or mute people or, or do things like that for some people, but yeah, I just hesitate to use social media as a way to kind of communicate without communicating. And, and so for most of us with our real life, friends, I just stick it out with them, even if they don’t agree with what they’re pitching. And sometimes it helps me know, hmm. People in my world are coming in from a lot more perspectives than I thought. And this person who may be sits quietly and never says anything in public is very vocal on social media. And even from a ministry standpoint, that’s telling me something, I’m like, Hmm, this person has a lot more going on inside them. I thought, now i Everyone knows. And so that can, that can actually be a way to get to know people may be important. You don’t want to know.

Sarah Zylstra
Yeah, yeah. Yep, I think that’s good. Let’s talk about so we can have individual discernment, like I need to be on these platforms, or I can be following these people. But there are also general rules, like nobody should be scrolling aimlessly for three hours a day. So there’s kind of just like, you know, where do I even start? What are some, like, general principles for? You know, this is your you’re not using social media? Well, if you’re, you know, writing angry messages, or what are some of the tips and like, sort of general this is what this is a red flag when I see someone doing this?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, that’s, that’s a good question. As well. Obviously, if I feel like someone is online all day long, you know, that’s, that would be concerning for for any of us, for you. And me, I mean, like, we have to use a lot for work, because I would normally say, when I’m doing my normal work, that requires no social media, I’m not on anytime during work hours, just because I got to shoot. And but sometimes I have to go on to post stuff that we’re because the work we’re in. And so what I do notice is how easy it is to get on and be like, Why not come here? Right? Distraction 101. And so I have to sometimes think, Okay, I’m not gonna look at anything, I’m just gonna go post that, it might take me a ridiculous amount of time to post it, because I’m not good at this social media thing. But I can just go on and do that, then leave. But I think even being aware that social media is set up to keep your attention, like your algorithms there are, they are trying to keep you coming back. So some practical things, I think you can turn off notification settings, yeah, go into your phone, don’t let those apps notify you. For a long time, I had taken Facebook actually off my phone. So the only time I could look at it was my computer. And so that was helpful, you know, just because it just said, Oh, you have to be in front of your computer looking at it. So when I was on my phone, I was either answering a text or do it, you know, doing something productive. But I think it’s fine to take certain apps off your phone. And that might be a way that just not there. What I what I would say I wish I would do is before I would sign on, I would maybe think is there something else I need to be doing. And I’m thinking this way, because I’ll use social media, like in the grocery store line. For instance, like that’s a commonplace on my hubs of word. And I, I don’t do this, and I wish I went up maybe by even saying it, I will learn to do it more. I wish I would say, Lord, is there anybody in this line you’d have me pray for right now? I mean, just those moments really can matter. A Wilson, one of my friends from some Bible app is now getting push notifications that say things like, is there someone in your life you’d like to pray for right now. And she says has been so helpful. So this is again, we can use certain apps to help us because she’s like, it’s made me sit there and think, Lord, who do you want me to pray for? Well, that’s a great push notification rather than Oh, look at this story from this person or whatever. And so so that’s something I want to be more I want to grow in I want to really think about those empty moments that we all have for waiting in carpool line or were you going from here to there or whatever. I want to use those better because even if it’s just to sit in silence, and maybe not think I think our brains need that rest. So that’s something I want to grow in. I don’t know we probably all have areas to grow in this. Yeah, cuz we’re all newbies. It’s all it’s all. We’re we grew up in this era where it began and so we’re all learning.

Sarah Zylstra
This is why Right. How does the person use discernment when they’re choosing who to surround themselves with. So I guess I’m thinking guys back to like followers, or like who you’re one huge part of discernment online is what you’re you can curate who you’re looking at or your own, like you can go on, and it can just literally be your 50 closest friends. And that’s a totally different experience, probably a great experience, honestly. Then if you go on, and you’re friends with 3000 people, then you can endlessly scroll and never get to the end of it. And you know, and sometimes it’s like, oh, I’m following a lifestyle blogger, or, like, is there any, how do you use discernment in shaping your own social media experience?

Melissa Kruger
Hmm, that’s a good question. I think we have to recognize what we see will shape what we desire. And so I have a lot of great women who I think are doing amazing things for the Lord. And it really does shape what I desire. And, and shape what I know about because I don’t, I want to know what’s going on in the world. And so some of these women are just more aware of what’s happening in countries around the world. And I might not know about it even. Or they might know of this really good article, and they shared this article or things like that. So there’s a lot that I’m really thankful for. And I look and I say, Wow, I would not have known about that. I’ll even say, I have a friend who shares great clothing at cheap prices. And I’m glad I can follow her. Because it’s not expensive stuff. You know, it’s like, oh, well, that’s great to know about, I’m glad it’s there. And so sometimes it can be actually really helpful to know, when you’re even the chopping things that are that are out there, and the influencers, so to speak, that are out there, it’s just knowing what is going to cause you to sin, what is going to cause your heart to maybe you want something that you can’t have. And so that’s a good check on it. But, you know, if you’re, you’re trying to find a Christmas gift for a teenager, which I think is nearly impossible, it’s great to find someone who might be able to help you out in social media is gonna have that, you know, and so there are some good places to do that. But I think the discernment comes in, by first and always placing yourself in the Word. And so one good check that I didn’t say earlier is if I’m every day on social media, but I say I can only read my Bible every other week. That’s a huge red flag that something’s off in my life. And so the more time I spend in Scripture, the more I’m going to be able to rightly discern what social media is doing to my heart. The Scripture is actually going to read me, it’s going to speak to me and change me in a way that helps me discern, but I’m not going to ever be able to discern what’s amiss in social media, if I’m not in truth everyday because there while there’s there’s good things, and there’s bad things in social media, how do I discern the difference, and that is the difference between life and death, the only way I’m going to do that is by being a woman in the Word. So that’s kind of where it starts for me. And I’m so thankful. I had years of studying God’s word before social media existed. Because a lot of these kids are 15 and 16. And they’re jumping in. And, you know, they’re, they’re more attuned to how am I supposed to stand correctly? Or what I don’t know what they were

Sarah Zylstra
to handle the cameras, all

Melissa Kruger
that and they’re building a life. And wow, when you think of that verse again, he might us from worthless things. It’s just worthless pursuits, you know, and we can waste our life. And I think one of the biggest things with discernments that starts is knowing our time is a resource that can never come again. Money, you can lose it all. And maybe you’ll earn it back. Yeah, money is variable. Time is not. It’s, it’s once it’s gone, it’s gone. And so you have to really consider your ways. What do I spend my life on? Yeah. What do you

Sarah Zylstra
do? Like so say, I’m on social media, and I know what’s gonna pull out my heart is gonna be somebody’s accomplishments, or, you know, for whatever that is for somebody else. And I run across that and I can feel that twinge in me. What’s the right response? Is it like, say a prayer like I’m just at this point, I’m just like, oh, that just feels gross. And I don’t like it. It makes me want to get off, I guess, which is good. Or keep scrolling until I find something that makes me feel better, which isn’t so good. What do you do when you find yourself in that moment? Oh, Like, Oh, I can recognize this in me. How do you how do you get out?

Melissa Kruger
I think that’s where we have to practice the art of spiritual warfare. It says, take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. So in some ways, it’s talking to ourselves, which might sound crazy, but we have to be talking to ourselves. So when the thought invades, wow, I’m a failure, because I haven’t done what she’s done. The thought that the battle back so that’s the fiery arrow of the enemy, coming into our mind, the shield that protects that is the word which says, God doesn’t love me based on what I do. God doesn’t love me based on what I do. Yeah, I’m a part in a big body. I can rejoice with her because she’s, she’s me if she’s a Christian, we’re all on the same body. So you know what I know, Sarah just wrote that amazing book. But that’s my team, you know, I mean, so we can start invading that thought and fighting against it. And I think that’s where the spiritual battle is, we often think the spiritual battle is, I’m doing great, thanks for God, I would say the biggest spiritual battle is being content with our role in the kingdom, and just being content with our life. And Paul says, I have learned the secret of contentment in all things. Thankfully, it was something he learned over many years of ministry and many sufferings, but it’s, it’s where the spiritual battle is happening. It’s not that we’re preaching to 1000s are teaching you whatever it’s, it’s that we can sit before the Lord with the good and the bad in our life and say, I am content because I am yours. And I know that you’re over all this. And the only thing that really matters in my life is that Jesus Christ has saved me and I’m gonna spend eternity with Him. I win. I win in this game of, of life, because he saved me. And I think that changes everything. But I do think we have to be doing battle in our minds.

Sarah Zylstra
I think that is excellent. It sort of reminds me of Gretchen’s chapter that she wrote the one on emotions and she includes in hers, verses that you can have with you for those emotions that you’re feeling, whether it is envy, or maybe even grief or just like all the to have that with you, when you even first open it up and just realize like, Okay, what I’m what I’m walking into here isn’t as beautiful and harmless as it seems, from my heart. So let me put out a little bit of armor, maybe before I even walk into this place, which is interesting, because it looks like you’re walking into such a gorgeous, friendly, you know, place where all your friends are.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah. But you know, I feel like I’ve done the armor. Oh, my go to church. I can remember. When Sunday, my husband and I had had some big fight on the way to church, and I was very mad at him. And I mean, I’m sure no one else ever fights. But, and then I remember sitting. Yeah, and so we are not probably even standing near each other, you know, like this. And I remember this couple in front of me. Yeah, he puts his arm around her and they’re singing and I’m like, Oh, they have a good marriage. And so it’s it’s gonna invade our life anyway. I don’t know anything about that couple in front of me. It’s actual marriage. It could be that they had a fight too. And this is the apology hug. You never know. And so I think it’s just good practice for us to learn wherever we go. We’re going to be doing battle in our mind. And spiritual warfare. And I love what she said about what you said that Gretchen had mentioned about grief. Because I know that’s just one is difficult things seeing can make us grieve. Yeah. You see, oh, that happy family together? Or that person still has their mom not? Yeah, and or that person still has their child. Yeah, I mean, it. And so let me say this, I think in profound seasons of grief, it’s totally okay to just be off. I think it’s totally okay to be off for anyone. But I think there are times when we’re going through certain seasons that we may say, I’ve got to be off for for my own healing and protection. And I think that’s totally okay. And something good to think about and maybe even ask other people. Do you think this is the season I should be away from this?

Sarah Zylstra
That’s really good. That’s really good. I love bringing in real life relationships, there are people who really know all of you. One thing that you wrote is this sentence, which is discernment is not avoidance of the world. It’s the ability to go into the world and embrace the good while avoiding the bad which I think is also like what you’re talking about here, like, Hey, we got to have on our armor, whether we’re walking into an Instagram house or we’re walking into church or walking into work. You have to go those places we do live here in this world and we’re supposed to be a light we’re not really supposed to be hiding in a corner somewhere. So how do you You Who do you are a social media user? How do you go online? Do you have rules for yourself? Do you have timers? Do you have like, Are there any structures that you think about? Or that you’ve sort of maybe even unconsciously put into place over the years that help you sort of be your guidance, the road that you walk on to help you walk that road?

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, I think the first thing we already discussed a little bit, but I will say it again, is being daily in the word and a prayerful person, because I think it teaches us to number our days are right that we we gain a heart of wisdom. But the Lord has to do that. So we have to be in His word, I gave the example, in the book of my friend, Angela, who’s, who worked as a teller in the bank for a little while. And the way they taught you despite counterfeit was by only allowing you to see real money for like, the first month, and they taught them all the things about real money. And then slowly, when they started introducing counterfeit bills, immediately, they could tell what was false. And so as we walk into the social media marketplace, the only way we’re going to know what is false is because we know what is true. So well, we’ve learned to spot Hey, this is what’s true. So that party that you see isn’t what true fellowship is, churches where true fellowship is, you know, I mean, so we, we have this resource that’s there to guide us because without it, we really are lost. How do we discern what’s best? How do we discern what kind of life to live? How do we discern what we want to make our purpose in life about, I don’t know how to live without the Bible. I’m so thankful for it, that we’re Yes, saved for eternal life. But we’re also saved in this life, because the Creator gave us a book to help us discern what is best. And I know some people think, Oh, I don’t want to read the Bible, but it’s just gonna make me feel guilty about myself. I’m like, No, it’s just gonna make you know how to live. And that is actually a grace to us, rather than it’s a mercy to us rather than a burden. It’s always to lead us to Christ, not to lead us to feel like failure, failure of some sort. And so that’s always the first thing is to be a woman who’s in the Word. And then to just understand again, who I am as in who that is different than you. We want an easy answer. I know, I want you to tell me it should be 10 minutes, you got 10 minutes on Facebook today, you got 15 minutes on Instagram day. That’s it. I don’t know what’s best for you. And that’s the hard work of discernment. We want someone to tell us an answer. And the Lord wants us to come to Him with our questions. And so I think that Jake’s asking the Lord, I think that takes if you’re married, asking a spouse, if you’re not married, maybe asking a good accountability partner. What do you see going on in my life? Yeah. Um, if you have kids really good to ask them? Do you think mommy spends too much time on the phone? might be interesting, the replies we get? They’re gonna be real honest with you. So that’s always that’s always a good place to start. But I think all of those things are going to help us discern, is this taking over too much of my time, but just starting with the awareness that this is walking into a dangerous place? And I think we have to start with that awareness. You know, it’s like, if you go into the ocean, yeah, I remember my mom always told me, there are rip tides, be careful, always, you know, whatever be on watch. And it’s kind of like that. It’s like, hey, this can be a fun place to play. But there are rip currents out there. Be really careful about about how you’re swimming in the waters.

Sarah Zylstra
I love that analogy. When you’re talking about reality, you know, comparing to the real thing. It’s awesome. That just makes me also think about most of us go to Facebook for connection, right? So but I think, and when I was talking with definitely about this, her chapter is on relationships, like if you the place where you start is your real life relationships like that. And then you just maybe go to Facebook for some frosting or to catch up on a couple of things, but like, your real relationships are in person relationships and like, so the more or if I’m thinking about accomplishments, or having a perfect home or something like investing myself like to know a real accomplishment and the work that it takes helps you then when you’re looking at somebody else’s to second accomplishment of like, if I know the reality behind what goes into planning a party and having a great time with people and relationships, if I know the work that goes into a real an actual good marriage, if I know the work that goes into, you know, working with these kids day after day so they can get to their piano recital or whatever it is like to know the real life thing I think helps us approach the online life better

Melissa Kruger
But that’s exactly right. We tend to make up people’s lives in our head. Yeah, that that’s just not the real reality. And so in fact, we’re always comparing ourselves to a lie. Because it’s what we’ve made up that their life must be like, and we just don’t know, I’ll say this, I’ve done women’s ministry, I did it for 10 years in the local church, I sat in the dark rooms with people who on Facebook, you would have thought their lives were perfect. I wept with them. I went there with them because I was in that role. And I’ll be honest, it just, it broke any illusions for me that people are living these easy lives, people are suffering more than you know. And sometimes what you see on the outside is there is not even an attempt to be a lie. It’s not it’s, it’s the only appropriate thing maybe they can share. It’s not that they’re not trying to tell you their story. But it’s to be quite honest, say my husband had an affair last week isn’t something you’re going to share on Facebook. And it’s not even appropriate to share on Facebook. And so I go to it, I don’t process my emotions on Facebook, I don’t process my life with 3000 other people. I’m doing that with real friends in real time. And you know, my, my sweet prayer triad is a group of two other women, they see me cry every time. I’m not doing that online, because I just don’t even think that’s the appropriate place to do that. But I think what I know enough about women, is we all have places of heartache and suffering Elizabeth Elliott, I was listening to her on a podcast recently. And she said suffering is either having what you don’t want or wanting what you don’t have. And everybody lives in that reality. Somebody may have cancer, and they don’t want it. So my may want a husband and they don’t have it. We all live in broken expectations of what our life will be. And so remembering the truth of that that’s what the Bible is screaming that this world is broken. This world, even when people get what they want, there. It’s not enough, it’s broken. And so it’s just believing the live social media to think everybody’s okay out there when they’re really hurting and not okay,

Sarah Zylstra
that’s so that’s a huge part of discernment is just realizing what the, you just see the tip of the iceberg. And there’s so much more you don’t know, I have one more question for you. I’m just gonna spring it on you. And that is we’re talking a lot about discerning in what we consume. But also, every one of us is a content creator, even if you’re just posting for, you know, the couple people that you are friends with. How do you show discernment? You’ve talked about this a little bit already in oversharing. But how would you counsel someone who’s seeking to be discerning in what they post? Do we only ever post those good things, we know that the way people are reading them is that they’re constructing that our lives are perfect. And that’s maybe not good for them. On the other hand, it’s certainly not appropriate to be sharing all the Groasis, especially if it’s not our story to tell. So how do you know what to post?

Melissa Kruger
That’s a good question. And it does take discernment, I would say we have the benefit of being writers as content creators. And so we can use our words wisely. So I may rather than share about the exact situation I’ve been in, I may share about how a verse, there’s a verse in Isaiah that talks about scorch places, and the Lord will make it a place of springs. Well, I shared about a really painful experience through that imagery of scorch places, rather than sharing, let me tell you the story about what happened because it mobbed a lot of people. And it just wasn’t appropriate to publicly discuss some of the things that had happened. And so I think for a membrane, that more people maybe are watching your content than you realize, is always good. Even if you think oh, I’ve only got 20 followers. It’s affecting someone. And so it’s not that we hide that there are hard places in our life. But I think how we talk about them matters. So that takes discernment. But I also think it matters to think through before I post, Hey, how can I help someone out there? How can what I share, draw them more to God and His Word and His Church and his people and the love for him? And I think when we go into social media and use it that way. It’s amazing. The fruit that comes fruit that I think we won’t see for a long time. I recently reposted an article series I’d written five years ago, and it was on daily reading the word shared my favorite Bible reading plan from all these women who said when you share this five years ago, I started that plan and for the first time ever, I read the Bible in a year. All I did was share it, you know and you never know how you share it. mean, one little thing like that might change somebody’s life? Yeah. Because I’m like, oh my goodness, this woman got into a habit of reading the Bible every day of the year, you know, what a, what a joy to get to be a little store, part of that that story. And so I think, what’s important, think about your life, what’s impacted you for the Lord? How can you share that with others. And I just see that as, hey, we all appreciate being told, Hey, there’s a good deal over here, it’s two for one, at this restaurant this week or whatever. That’s great news. And I realized, in my own heart, I was much more comfortable sharing about the shoe sale than I was the good news of the gospel, I have such a better offer for them in the Gospel. And so I’ve just started saying, You know what, I don’t care if my neighbors think I’m that crazy Jesus girl. I’m okay being that and I’m just going to share about him. And and, and they’ll know maybe if they never, maybe if we just waved across the street. Now they know, and it does out me. And that’s okay. Because maybe one day they’ll say, Hey, can you tell me more? Why do you go to church, we never know what it will do. So

Sarah Zylstra
I, I love that tremendously. And I kind of want to end there. But I kind of also want to ask you this. Usually, when you’re talking about posting about negative things, but we also post a lot about our positive things. And some, in some senses can just be like, Hey, I’m just letting people know what’s going on in my life. My kid got this great school, or, you know, in our line of work, somebody publishes a book or in somebody else’s line of work, they get a promotion, or like all manner of things. And in some sense, that’s literally sharing in a joyful way. So people can rejoice with you, and you’re trying to give glory to God with it. But in so many ways, that is, like creating an image or, you know, bragging or being prideful, like, there’s just, it’s so hard to know, the right way to post good news.

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, it is. I mean, what I think it’s diverse, let others praise you is that your rather than you posted on social media, it feels like this megaphone. And it is difficult because it is the way the world works, and especially sharing. If you’ve written a book, and you want someone to read it, it’s it is the kind of marketplace of ideas, and this is where we share and that’s a reality,

Sarah Zylstra
or even like, Hey, I’m pregnant, right? Like, which is a wonderful, joyful thing, and is cutting so many other people at the same time.

Melissa Kruger
It’s really difficult. And I think that’s where I do want to say, I think we can we can share with cautiousness, there are things I don’t share on social media, particularly pictures with friends. I don’t share a lot of that, because I don’t want to hurt anyone who why was I invited? I just yeah, in years of women’s ministry, I realized that could be problematic. But as you post a lot of pictures of like my family, and what’s going on with them, and I recognize that can be painful for people. The fact that my teenager still talked to me might be I wish my teenagers still talk to me or whatever want to travel with again, they still like to do stuff with us, I realized that’s a gift. So it is a it’s a line that we all have to discern. But I will say it’s okay to share our lives with others. And we, we shouldn’t have to hide good things from one another. But we can be cautious and just aware. I do try to think how would this make this person feel while at the same time when I’m watching someone else’s share a good thing, trying in my heart, the discipline of rejoicing with those who rejoice and being really joyful for them. So trying to cheer on the successes of others, even in the most painful places for me, trying to say, Oh, I’m so glad that’s going well for them. So that’s on my receiving end, trying to discipline of rejoicing and mourning with those who mourn, but on the giving end, being cautious, but also not being afraid because you can we live as we wrote in our Advent dividual in a weary world. And I do think it’s, it’s good to see there’s still beauty here. And there’s still good things happening here.

Sarah Zylstra
I think another caution in sharing good news is so often we can throw on like, look how God how good God is in a legitimate effort to give glory to God. And yet that just skates right up against the prosperity gospel of like a good God gives us these good things because you know, and connects that so tight more tightly than we intend. So that’s just one like having to walk the line between giving legitimate glory to God and not wanting to connect for anybody else. That that’s what it means that he’s just a slot machine.

Melissa Kruger
I actually think that’s a great point. God’s goodness is not dependent on our circumstances. Whereas I think we can say, I’m so thankful the Lord, let me have this experience or I’m so thankful the Lord worked in this way is a little bit different than saying, God is so good. He gave me Yeah, well, he was way. He’s good in the heart. He’s good in the good. But I think it’s right to rejoice always pray continually give thanks in all circumstances, like, but that’s all circumstances, you know. And so that’s where, yeah, I think we can praise God when we say, Oh, I got a good test result. And I can rightly say, it’s really hard that I got a bad one. Would you pray for you? I think I think I see that in Scripture. I see Paul saying that. He shares his hardships. He’s not afraid to share his hardships yet. He’s still saying I’m content in all things. So I think we can share hard, we can share, we can share the good but but God is good no matter what. And so that’s his goodness isn’t dependent upon how we interpret our circumstances. And I think sometimes you do see those a little bit equated on how we post?

Sarah Zylstra
Yeah. Yep. And maybe also to, you know, I guess I’m just thinking in terms of, of wisdom and discernment. If you see somebody else who does it, well, just can think like, oh, how is she? What is she? You know, what is it that makes that post really effective? That I don’t feel jealous, or I don’t feel overwhelmed with grief or, you know, anxious when I read what she’s saying, How is you know, using some imitation there might be

Melissa Kruger
Yeah, that’s good. You walk with wise, you become wise yourself. That’s good.

Sarah Zylstra
Melissa, thank you so much. This has been a delight.

Melissa Kruger
Oh, thank you, Sarah. Thanks for all your work on this book. I know. I think it’s gonna bless women, a lot of women, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve pulled us all together and done the work. So thank you.

Sarah Zylstra

Thank you.